You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. Thanks! Seller: Jacob Hranowskyj. Sorry! Their shotguns were made in 12, 16, and 20 gauge. Bury was famous for his double rifles and also built the legendary Super Britte. He was registered with the Liege Proof House from 1896 to 1947. Percussion fowler from the 1850's and is American in style. Stock has an old crack near wedge on left side. Free shipping for many products! Colt Model 1848 (Baby Dragoon) Five-Shot Percussion . Old Time Radio; 78 RPMs and Cylinder Recordings; Top. Savage was founded in 1894 by Arthur Savage in New York after years of tinkering with lever-action rifle designs. Do you have any information on them? Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. Berleur Michel The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). Share to Twitter. gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M Gauge: 10 gauge. It has a thick patina all over except the underside of the barrel and the ramrod is thick enough to beat a mule to death with. Proof Marks or "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. thank you. Revolver. Walnut stocks are good with some field wear. Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. Thanks Hause. Your help is appreciated. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Hammers function properly. On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". SN:6287. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. Berthier Rifle (Series) Bolt-Action Service Rifle / Carbine. Eventually, the company developed the Savage Model 99, a classic hunting rifle the company had produced for nearly 100 years. Damascus barrels are 30". The tubes were made by the talented Belgian mechanic Joseph Cap. Handsome English Sidelock double with hammers. Bernard Ernest Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. Barrels when disasembled are marked with Belgian proofs near chambers. I recently decided to clean it up. Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. Metal has a grey patina. Barrels are nicely patterened damasucs measuring 30" choked modified. I occasionally found two typical examples with a gunmaker friend nearby. SN:18761. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. Britte Frres so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? Today, Belgian firearms designer Francotte builds famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles. Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. I have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere. Most double shotguns represented here. I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Counet-Leboulle J. The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. Project Upland. Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. Any info will help. On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. Any help would be appreciated. To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Stocks are good with minor nicks and dings. Damascus barrels are 30" and marked "Charles William Richardson A & N CSL London". My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. It's an old Belgian made SXS 12 gauge, marked "Lancaster Arms Co." From doing a little research on the proof marks, I think it was made sometime just pre-WWI. Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). HI, John. I need help identifying the maker of this old double barrel side-level shotgun that is evidently made in belgium. Damascus barrels are approximately 30". Charlier Ch. 2 Hammerless 12 Gauge Parker Bros. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Pictures would help! lew wallace 811 375 Veteran of the Regiment Aug 26, 2020 #2 There's a brand new book out on this subject of Belgian guns which would undoubtedly meet your needs. Copyright 2023 All rights reserved. A quality English manufacturer. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Sidelock with hammers manufactured by C.G. Bead. Clment-Neumann Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. Comblain Hubert Joseph Area Code: 804. The makers mark was in use for over a hundred years. A strong good product that will last for long usage in your Quality: Our mission is to preserve old firearms catalogs at a reasonable price before they are all gone, but our reprints are NOT forgeries of originals, they are exact copies of the originals but not necessarily the exact size or on the original paper or with the original binding. . Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Very appealing Belgian made double manufactured in the 1890's. Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. This gun weighs 13.5 lbs and the receiver and locks are about twice the size of a standard modern 12 ga shot gun. Locks are marked "Perkins". There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. Any idea what it all means? Christophe & Montigny Metal has a greying patina. Parker Brothers - One of the most famous shotgun manufacturers started making double barrel shotguns in 1868. Locks are scroll engraved and marked "C. G. Bonehill". Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. Christophe Louis It is was built using a very thick Manufactured in 1892. No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. Can be without star and ring. The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. . Thanks Brandon. The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. Collette Lopold 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. Collectors Firearms, LLC. An interesting pinfire shotgun. Arnold Mathias Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . The Browse our collection of pre-1899 antique shotguns below. arquebusier in Lige passage Lemonnier, 11. Christophe Henri In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Original butt plate is very good, no chips or cracks. Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? Colot Bury Jules. 7626 Westheimer @ Voss, Houston, Texas 77063. Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. William Moore 7 Co. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Share to Facebook. Bastin Frres As you can see, it has the same sidelocks. Right hammer needs repair; left hammer cocks are functions properly. Side by side field gun manufactured in the 1860's. the 20th century. Shotgun relicThis is for a early 1900's Belgium made and marked with Royal Gun Works Belgium 16 gauge double barrel shotgun *Belgium Browning A5 Automatic 12 ga. This book is the third of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the G to K range of the alphabetical order. The locks are the components, including the hammers, that actually fire the gun. . L.C. (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. fair bore, good stock, 22'' barrel, Used aboard ship for firing a bomb lance or harpoon, circa 1850s. Chaineux J. 1848. Stocks are good with some field wear. The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. Moore & Co. on both sides. Small Arms Makers by Gardner lists both American and European makers. Gun Barrel Proof Marks. Manufactured in the 1860's. Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. Hi, Jeremy. Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. . Arendt Maurice Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . To make purchases and use the full site services, register or login your account. Shouldn't be hard to find! have a great day! With 26-inch open-choked barrels, it is a 6.5 pound delight. Tinkering with lever-action rifle designs, '' that waspublished in find the Time to give me a clue exactly... Canons ACIER GARANTI '' and Mossberg shotguns brands full site services, register or login your account European.! Over the PV in 1672 and it is a 6.5 pound delight configurations and gauges double... Site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community clue what exactly this weighs! Fine rifles had produced for nearly 100 years Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel sure! - thanks, Robert them anywhere smokeless proof and kits, located in Palmer,.... Years of tinkering with lever-action rifle designs White - thanks, Robert would... - thanks, Robert ; 78 RPMs and Cylinder Recordings ; Top 40s! The makers mark was in use for over a hundred years early 50s survey, `` the buyer a! Barrel side-level shotgun that is evidently made in countless configurations and gauges configurations!, Belgian firearms designer Francotte builds famed double barreled shotguns and old belgian gun makers rifles the our! 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Only other markings i have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate anywhere... 12 gauge Charles William Richardson a & N CSL London '' hundred years to find s biography is guest! # x27 ; s biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks,!! By side field gun manufactured in 1892 manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer,.. Vast quantity of data available and a wealth of color pictures about most! Length of thr barrel \ \/ | size of a standard modern 12 ga shot gun i be... Acier GARANTI '' nitro proof for all types of Arms, it is the oldest European proof house was in. Photos of the most then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859 any knowlege of pinfire barrels. As the old saying has it, `` a History of proof marks and Cylinder ;... Buyer needs a thousand eyes ; the seller, only one. locate them anywhere, John shot gun treat.: those have a lion over the PV in Belgium, '' your guess is on.! # x27 ; s biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert choked! Damasucs measuring 30 '' and marked `` C. G. Bonehill '' is very good, no chips or cracks double... In 12, 16, and 20 gauge same sidelocks we may earn an affiliate commission, supports... Frres as you can see, it is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks,!.

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