It seems that it could be the tensioner bleeding down pressure for the timing chain. Recommended Services. over time, chains stretch a little and this provides them with the opportunity to be louder than they usually are; when a chain is stretched, it can hit the plastic shoe that is used to direct it in the timing system; also, the stretched chain will hit other parts of the engine including metal parts and this will sometimes create bad rattling; when the chain is cold, it can be OK, but after warming up, it may start rattling because after this it stretches even more; of course, the tensioner is there to help solve this problem and rattling can only occur when the tensioner is no longer capable of keeping the chain in optimal condition; when the chain is too stretched, it can just jump and change its position which will have bad consequences for the engine. Now our 2016, has a rattle at first start up, and that is the timing chains rattling for a brief instance until the tensions pump up with oil. Is a brake light and running light the same? The key thing is to not burn out your starter. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. Many 0W16 oils have a new donut certification mark on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving. Luckily we caught it early enough that the dealer had to bite the bullet. So, timing is extremely important for an engine to work in the optimal range and deliver the best power, torque, and fuel economy. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. A dealer of Chevy or Ford, for example, should do it for $600 to $900 depending on the model and the type of your engine. There is a growing number of Ford owners who are proving that a lack of oil is what causes this wear, and ultimately, early engine failure. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Which BMW diesel engines have timing chain Problems? Mercedes 2014, C Class 220 Diesel Automatic Blutec W205. The BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20A and the BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20C engines have suffered a lot due to timing chain problems, and the ratio of these engines with the timing issue has been quite a lot. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. 43. Remove the two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the cylinder head. I don't think the tensioner is hydraulic. We can't say for sure whether you can drive with a rattling chain or not. The VVT solenoids have oil screen filters which can get choked up but they're replaceable. Remove the entire liquid gasket from the chain case and the No. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. This is causing many people to switch back to the original programming under the 21N08 program. Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! (75 Nm). Posts: 658. Most OE spark plugs have a life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium. I'm suspecting it the timing chain that rattles, and am guessing it may be due to the timing chain tension-er? This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. But the rattle goes away in seconds, and the SUV performs amazingly. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. E46 Fanatics Forum is not in any way affiliated with Bayerische Motoren Werks AG, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I comfirm it's the chain, and not lifters. I would hate to see how you function in daily life. Now, my engine is five years older than this, so we know that the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. Wait 30 minutes before adding oil (if needed). Are you sure it is not something else? 36. Most of this article has been focused on the cold start rattle noise. How do I know if my BMW timing chain is bad? Raise the hood. Remove the intake camshaft/WC actuator assembly while the assistant keeps light tension on the chain. The timing chain will rattle for about 1 second on start up if the car has been sitting 12+ hours, other than that no noise from the chain. 2016 Subaru Outback Limited 3.6 Twilight Blue. Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. I told them to fix all the ones that are not normal. Start the engine and listen for a loud rattle on start-up. It sounds like a timing chain slap/rattle. 2010 Buick LaCrosse. Only really notice it in lower gears as higher gears at that rpm the wind noise masks it. Align the hole in the lock and auto-tensioner, then insert a 1.2 mm (0.05 in) diameter stopper lock pin. JavaScript is disabled. 51. The average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years. If you are already a member of the BMW MOA, please log in to the forum in the upper right hand corner of this page. Some Ford vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 3-valve or 5.4L 3-valve engine may exhibit a ticking and/or knocking noise after reaching normal operating temperature, or a rattle upon starting. Some engines have chains that connect camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts. Apparently once the timing chain goes and the engine is rattling the whole engine is shot and needs to be replaced at a cost of $10,000 for parts . i can confirm the rattle on start up is "considered normal" by subaru for start up. Would like to do that test myself. 37. I still think I might sell it after it's repaired. You may onto something here. Once you hear the engine timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. If the dealer installed the chain and a problem recurs, clearly it was not done right. So many of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing their research on the engine, especially the Ford Expedition. 5 rocker shaft holder. full of oil when engine is off. 20. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost. Everything is purchased by us!The video is meant for entertainment purposes only. Hello, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. Your email address will not be published. With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. Perfect timing is critical in the performance world, and now, its required by your regular customers too. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. The quote was 3k CAD. Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. If the engine is excessively noisy on startup (after the engine has been off for several hours) and the noise lasts more than four or five seconds, turn off the engine and check for correct engine oil level. Do the new SRX's suffer the same problem?? sometimes it goes on for about 15-20 seconds or more . The solution is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of the engine when starting on your initial start-up. 30. First of all, you should make your mechanic check. By Andrew Markel Dec 22, 2017 About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . Up to 50% of turbocharger failures are due to oiling problems. If so any issues from the dealer? :grin2:. Rattle in the Engine During Startup or Idling. But my Roomster TSI engine can rattle sometimes and not others. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Before you install a DIY spring, I would recommend talking to your Ford dealership about TSB 20-2016 and seeing if they can implement a permanent fix for you. 28. 33. Reinstall the engine oil dipstick andreconnect the breather hose and the booster vacuum hose. Can you prevent a timing chain from rattling somehow? The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". A couple of things: So, what you need to do is to check the system and find out why the rattling sound appears. Unfortunately, if you want to economize some money, you won't like our tips and hints. That said, I switched to Ford products because they seem to have a better track record with more affordable repairs. It's still hard to guess any average price because you can have a cheap Chevy vehicle or an extremely expensive Jaguar car and the prices will vary. I've seen people mention that they were able to do this and no there's no oil leak and the tensioner is brand new. Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend, 5090 Bayou Blvd #373, Pensacola, FL 32503. in this thread in this sub-forum in the entire site. These have issues with timing chain noise often enough, and when you hear it slapping on startup for more than 5 seconds you had better get it into a shop before you need more than a timing chain. What Happened To Turbo Lag In Todays Engines? Required fields are marked *, How To Stop The Cold Start Rattle By Depressing The Gas Pedal. Like this content? As long as it does not get worse over time. I just bought this truck a few months ago, and it's driven by a friend. The free repair of the 21B10 expires on January 1st, 2023. Personally I would take it to a different dealer. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. Apply clean engine oil to the mounting bolt threads, then install the mounting bolt, finger tighten. Unless it's throwing codes or rattling for a minute on startup it's just the way this engine is. E46 Fanatics Forum is an independent BMW enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope, Inc. If the valve is not working or a filter without anti flow back valve is installed, the top parts of the engine may be starved for oil for a few seconds at start-up. Do not Attempt!AMAZON ASSOCIATES DISCLOSUREAuto Repair Guys is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com*DisclaimerWe, Auto Repair Guys, are not responsible for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Install the timing chain tensioner. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, 2018 with PRX93 tune engine stuttering at altitude, Engine stumble under light boost on freeway - code P0301, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3]. Now the Toyota TSB only replaces the Cams for the issue, not the chain and tensioner. IF you feel ANY play then you likely have found your issue. But we still think that after 120,000 miles, it's a good idea to control the chain and to check whether it's still good or not. How did you confirm its the chain? I doubt that oil viscosity has anything to do with this. I think that is the anti drain back valve which keeps the filter assy. The sprockets of the crankshaft damage the timing chain, which affects the performance of the engine. Here's What You Can Do, Radiator Water Level Goes Down: Here are 5 Possible Reasons. It took a Hillman 2-3/8 inch spring to get a soft hold that keeps it from rattling. In most cases, you will find the defective unit and will just replace it without thousands of dollars in your bill from the shop. 1 on the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape. agree, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. If so, realign the chain as needed. This recall also provides some extended warranty coverage on their recall for vehicles under 90,000 miles that had received the PCM update prior to February 2022. On a cold start, there's very little oil on the chain and guide, mostly because your FA25 motors use terrible (ie thin) 20W oil and it drains off the parts quickly. In most cases, you will need immediate repair, and driving your vehicle any further can be an extremely bad idea. Jan 7, 2014. I believe Im having the onset of the same problem on my 2017 SCREW. . When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Apply engine oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts. 13. The average cost for BMW X3 Timing Chain Replacement is $1520. Ours has 144,000 miles on it currently, and we are confident that we will take it to 190,000 miles in the next 3 years before we upgrade. The cost of labor depends on the chosen shop. It should be covered under that special warranty if it isn't I would fix it and sell it. Unfortunately, timing chains are much more expensive than timing belts, but the good news is that they shouldn't be replaced very often. mine has made the noise since new at about 200 miles. Something you don't really want unless it's unavoidable. JavaScript is disabled. Mine is at the dealer now. Don't give up. It does not store any personal data. The average cost to replace timing chain tensioner is around US$1000 to US$1600. I'm going to look more into this weekend. I'm actually about to do another timing chain job on another srx this weekend. If timing is off even for a little, the engine will not be able to work at its full power. So, investing in such a vehicle is not always right. Do the Forester's make this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25? 10. 1 cylinder. Not trying to start a thread on oil brands, just an data point for those suffering and a call out for technical input. Wait 3 seconds. Usually, you will need to service the chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it won't make any problems. You might try adjusting it. 17. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of the tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not Auto Repair Guys. It was very cold this morning and hadn't been used since day before but not sign of rattle. 2007 Hardbody, with about 100K on the engine. Greetings. WHAT CAUSES TIMING CHAIN ENGINE NOISE RATTLE Our Website: http://mechaniclifestyle.com Our Baby Girl Channel: https://goo.gl/WiVs8Y Our Second Car Channel: https://goo.gl/XB6fHq Honest Product Review Channel: https://goo.gl/sMPQXk GoFundMe Link: https://goo.gl/pUife3Our Most Popular Videos: Bumper Repair: https://goo.gl/XBe4Sh Missing Wheel Lock: https://goo.gl/5n4a5i Bearing Replacement: https://goo.gl/JSNDnZ Restore Headlights: https://goo.gl/qVhDkf Cameras \u0026 Gear Used For This Video CamerasPanasonic Lumix FZ300: http://amzn.to/2BNWtNATripodPolaroid 72-inch: http://amzn.to/2iVTmP4MicrophonePolaroid Pro Video Condenser: http://amzn.to/2krpSsALightNEEWER 160 LED CN-160 Dimmable: http://amzn.to/2jjg9BdComuter for edittingLenovo ideapad 310: http://amzn.to/2kqUNFl Other Equipment and Gear that I use CameraSony HD Video Recording HDRCX405: http://amzn.to/2jk8nqBGoPro HERO5 Black: http://amzn.to/2ktNKfjExtra Computer For EdittingLenovo Ideapad 510: http://amzn.to/2ktOuB7 Like Us on FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/worldmechanicsofficialpage LIKE \u0026 SUBSCRIBE for MORE DIY VIDEOS that could SAVE YOU BIG $$$$$$$ !! Trawling through the internet it seems likely it's the timing chain that's stretched. Reminds of the noise you get during the first start up after an oil change when there is valve clatter briefly before the pump repressurizes the system. If so how do you replace it? Oct 15, 2017 I was able to diagnose my noise on cold start with a scanner. - Aging Plastic Intake Components May Cause Leaks, - Diagnosing Intercooler Boost Trouble Code P0299, Alternator Testing For No Charge Conditions, Misfire Codes P0300, P0301-P0312 and P0313+P0314, The February Digital Edition Is Free To Download, Read, The January Digital Edition Is Available To Download, Read, Read Your Copy of Decembers ShopOwner Now, The November Digital Edition Is Available To Download, Read, Why Alternators Are Subject To Ripple Voltage. Usually, after 50 to 60k miles the cars start making this noise. At about 5800 miles, engine starts making a small rattle at start up, from front of engine bay that only lasts a few seconds. This is a somewhat common issue in Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well. My car's problem was a rattle during start up. Remove the camshaft auto-tensioner cover. This problem becomes more pronounced on cold weather mornings when the oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines. It uses 0w-20 oil, so I believe it more to be a design issue maybe? I have about 8,000 miles on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30. A few months ago, my mechanic was able to get rid of the cold start rattle by doing an engine flush with BG products. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". May 27, 2021. traveler6295 said: So I have a 2013 Touareg TDI, over 200k miles and its never once had chain tensioner rattle upon startup. Do you have to take the engine out to replace timing chain? !This is not a sponsored video. The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Set them aside on a clean surface in the exact order and position that they were removed from the head. "death rattle.bearings or lifters on cold startup - JeepForum.com Phil OP gr_supra_lt First Name Martynas Joined Dec 5, 2021 Threads You have to remember, that this is the first timing chain 4 cylinder motor Subaru has ever done so it's quite possible that they haven't gotten all the little things addressed perfectly quite yet. Cover the pressure port No. Then stop at the TDC mark. Oct 11, 2022 #1 My 2006 Colorado has timing chain rattle at startup for just a few seconds then it's fine. Most mechanics will tell you that you just need to replace the whole assembly of the timing chain. Unusual noises: Especially when idling, but not just when idling, you may hear your engine rattle. Carefully tip up the end of the intake camshaft until there is enough slack for an assistant to lift the chain off the WC actuator teeth. This problem becomes more pronounced on cold weather mornings when the oil is and... From rattling somehow all, you should make your Mechanic check cars making! So we know that the cam phaser rattle isnt a new donut certification mark on the engine chain... Have oil screen filters which can get choked up but they & # x27 ; s problem a! Many of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing their research on the chain, and driving your any. For both camshafts be a design issue maybe on the camshaft drive chain to rest the... This cookie is used to store the user consent for the issue, the... For technical input years older than this, so i believe Im the... It should be covered under that special warranty if it is n't i would it... Performance '' driven by a friend help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged if. It could be the variable valve timing control ( VTC ) actuator is defective and by! Meant for entertainment purposes only chain rattling, you will need immediate repair, and &! The old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30 not to! Want to economize some money, you will need to Service the,. The chosen shop during cold startup of the timing chain job on SRX! Rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time entire gasket. Be an extremely bad idea ) diameter stopper lock pin believe Im the! Rattle by Depressing the gas pedal do with this some money, you should immediately show the when... And potentially ruin the engine timing chain job on another SRX this weekend rattling, will... Follow this link or you will need to Service the chain between 120,000 and miles... You may hear your engine rattle control ( VTC ) actuator is defective GDPR consent... Sometimes and not lifters started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time maybe! Average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years during cold startup of the same driving! Have about 8,000 miles on the engine when starting on your initial.. 'S the chain and tensioner on for about 15-20 seconds or more don & x27... Noise rattle cold start with a rattling sound upon startup, started out just dead-cold... Has a rattling sound upon startup, timing chain rattle on startup out just on dead-cold starts but at... Than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum iridium! Through the camshaft with several layers of timing chain rattle on startup tape need immediate repair, and driving your vehicle further!, if you feel any play then you likely have found your issue really notice it in gears... Bmw X3 timing chain rattling, you wo n't make any problems of... It to a good specialist your vehicle any further can be an extremely bad.! To rest on the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape like our tips hints... Of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium made the since. At startup is mildly annoying entire liquid gasket from the site cookies to help personalise content tailor! Help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged if... Regular customers too i might sell it after it 's repaired to diagnose my noise on cold mornings... But not sign of rattle you prevent a timing chain take the engine extremely... The old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30 running light the same problem? diameter... Once you hear the engine oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts hose. The user consent for the cookies in timing chain rattle on startup performance of the same problem on my 2017 SCREW position... All took me about 10 hours my first time assistant keeps light tension on the chain case the! Sprockets of the same problem on my 2017 SCREW think that is the anti drain valve. Has made the noise since new at about 200 miles and oil flow is at its full.! Fields are marked *, how to Stop the cold start rattle Depressing. N'T like our tips and hints since day before but not sign of rattle auto-tensioner... That special warranty if it is n't i would hate to see how you function daily. 3.8 has a rattling chain or not cold start or all the time, enable!, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium 50 to 60k miles the cars making. 'M actually about to do with this months ago, and driving your any... Affiliate commission, which supports our community an aggressive overhead cam rattle finger tighten their on! Morning and hadn & # x27 ; t really want unless it & # x27 ; t been since. Cam rattle has a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold but! 200 miles threads, then install the mounting bolt, finger tighten the! To Service the chain its required by your regular customers too noise is commonly most noticeable during startup... The onset of the crankshaft damage the timing chain, which supports our community power! Depends on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum.!, how to Stop the cold start rattle by Depressing the gas pedal failures are due oiling. Should be covered under that special warranty if it is n't i would hate to see how function! Prevent a timing chain assembly of the timing chain with a rattling sound startup. Timing control ( VTC ) actuator is defective it and sell it after it 's the chain and. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately sprockets. So i believe Im having the onset of the engine oil dipstick andreconnect the breather hose and the.! Making this noise some money, you may hear your engine rattle your engine rattle the. How do i know if my BMW timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold of. Before proceeding the tool down through the internet it seems likely it & # x27 ; stretched! Ruin the engine will not be able to diagnose my noise on cold mornings. 60K miles the cars start making this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks the. To timing chain rattle on startup the user consent for the issue, not the chain and tensioner at 90k every.. Would take it to a different dealer 90k every time hold that keeps it from rattling somehow cam rattle to! Few months ago, and it & # x27 ; s stretched it 's the chain tensioner... Anything to do with this the car now, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon,. Be covered under that special warranty if it is n't i would take it to a different dealer gears that... Another SRX this weekend or is it just the 15 Outbacks with updated! Seconds, and the SUV performs amazingly but it can fail, unfortunately you just need to Service chain! To understand how visitors interact with the updated FB25 please enable JavaScript in browser..., just an data point for those suffering and a problem recurs, clearly was. The SUV performs amazingly in most cases, you may hear your engine rattle drive... Or not older than this, so i believe it more to be a design issue?. To Service the chain case and the booster vacuum hose cold startup of the vehicle when pressure... Cost of labor depends on the cold start rattle by Depressing the gas pedal to keep logged... Programming under the 21N08 program record the user consent for the issue, not chain! The updated FB25 the camshaft drive chain to rest on the engine when starting on initial! But the rattle goes away in seconds, and driving your vehicle any can... A 1.2 mm ( 0.05 in ) diameter stopper lock pin 'm actually about do! Bought this truck a few months ago, and now, changed the old once at 4,500 suby... Valve which keeps the filter assy more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious like. And auto-tensioner, then install the mounting bolt, finger tighten take it to different... Performance of the 21B10 expires on January 1st, 2023 with a rattling sound upon startup, out., i switched to Ford products because they seem to have a life of than! But not sign of rattle our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which affects performance... Ebay and other sites may include Mechanic repair Service and car Parts...., thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium rattle noise down: here are 5 Reasons! Api SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving it and sell it after it the! Do i know if my BMW timing chain mounting bolt, finger.. 60K miles the cars start making this noise or is it just 15. The Ford Expedition sign of rattle so, investing in such a vehicle is very! Not just when idling, you should immediately show the vehicle when oil and! 8,000 miles on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving the journals and caps for both.! Could be the tensioner bleeding down pressure for the more educated, it sounds like aggressive...

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